question about ticket

[Ghostly]

well most of you heard my story in a diff post... got my bike back today and glad about that. now i had some questions about my ticket

on the ticket there was a speed racing charge

about the "speed racing" ive read the definition and such but cant find a reasonable answer to why he gave me that and just not a speeding ticket.. i WASNT racing... there was a couple semi's near me and a couple SLOW cars..

so why speed racing?
also can he really chagre me with it with no speed marked on the ticket.. he didnt even tell me weither he saw my speed on his speedo or not

ive called Pre-Paid Legal and i am going to court with a lawyer but they havent called me back (probably cuz the weekend) so im just asking you guys until i get a response from them



also got a driving uninsured charge... ive got insurance now..
do you think they will throw that charge out or still try to pin the fine on me?

[Nicegy525]

they may drop the no insurance charge if you provide proof.

not sure about the speed racing charge. it sounds frivolous though

[DrDuc]

A loooonnnnggggg time ago, when I was young (21), I was charged cited in Washington for "racing" because I was driving my 4-wheel-drive pickup along side of and talking to my friends in a '70 Camaro Z-28. When I asked the citing officer if we were speeding, he said, you don't have to. I said, how were we racing if we weren't speeding. He said, you were comparing speeds. I said, what's that? He said, racing. We went around and around with that like it was an old Abbott and Costello bit until he said, If you can't understand me, you're going to jail. My girlfriend's dad had to come bail me out. It wasn't fun.

I later learned that, regardless of how fast they are traveling, they can cite drivers for comparing speeds if they believe that vehicles are driving along side of each other and comparing the speed of one vehicle to the other's. What sucked the most about this is that comparing speeds was defined as a form of racing and racing was considered reckless driving. I had some high insurance rates for a few years...

[DFinch]

After just reading your original post, I can only speculate about why things went down the way they did and how you ended up with the charges you did. I'll try to explain:

1. No insurance is self-explanatory, and in Oregon means you get towed whether bike or car.

2. The fact that he handcuffed you suggests his first thought was Reckless Driving, which is a crime. It takes special circumstances to be able to cuff someone for committing a violation-level offense. Both Driving Uninsured and Speed Racing are violations (SR is a Class A "this is gonna hurt" violation, but it is still a violation, not a crime). If his first take is "Reckless", or he thinks you're trying to Elude, then that explains the cuffs.

3. Speed Racing. It doesn't take two vehicles to speed race the way Oregon law is written (it is admittedly poorly written). Section 1(d) simply says "an exhibition of speed or acceleration". This pretty much leaves you at the mercy of the officer, and then the judge, to decide if your acceleration was unreasonable.

More later....

[Jane Honda]

A loooonnnnggggg time ago, when I was young (21), I was charged cited in Washington for "racing" because I was driving my 4-wheel-drive pickup along side of and talking to my friends in a '70 Camaro Z-28. When I asked the citing officer if we were speeding, he said, you don't have to. I said, how were we racing if we weren't speeding. He said, you were comparing speeds. I said, what's that? He said, racing. We went around and around with that like it was an old Abbott and Costello bit until he said, If you can't understand me, you're going to jail. My girlfriend's dad had to come bail me out. It wasn't fun.

I later learned that, regardless of how fast they are traveling, they can cite drivers for comparing speeds if they believe that vehicles are driving along side of each other and comparing the speed of one vehicle to the other's. What sucked the most about this is that comparing speeds was defined as a form of racing and racing was considered reckless driving. I had some high insurance rates for a few years...


:eek2:


You!?

Jail time?!? :wtf:

[DFinch]

To continue (had to run for a few)...

If you go to court and show that you've obtained insurance you might get it dropped or reduced.

On the Speed Racing, you have a decent case in that the riding behavior you described (which may be different from what the officer saw or will describe) would amount to a "technical" violation based on one element of a statute that gives seven different ways to violate the law...and yours in the most vague.

The spirit of the law is to penalize people who are actually racing, but is also designed to penalize people who are doing other things that go along with racing even if the race isn't actually occurring. A simple example is that it would include a hole shot from a light where you showed dramatic acceleration, or burnout, or wheelie...even if you weren't doing it to "race" another vehicle.

Swerving around a line of cars and nailing it to the exit, especially if you kept both wheels down, would be a bit of a chippy ticket unless you truly did get into Reckless or Careless territory.

Not having insurance will likely hurt you if you try to fight the Racing charge, but only you and the officer know how "bad" your riding was during that time.

He can absolutely cite you without knowing speed, and the fact that he probably didn't know your speed is why he couldn't just write you for speed and had to go with something else. I think Careless would have been a more solid choice compared to Racing.

Was it a Trooper?

[Flyte Risk]

Just a bit off topic...

It was good meeting you Sunday Finch.

[DFinch]

Hey! You too!

Sorry for the slow ride out of the campground when we all left together. Three of us wanted to run that harder than we did but the lead was worried about the tail, who just got that sport bike a couple weeks ago.

Hope you guys had a good ride the rest of the day!

[Ghostly]

To continue (had to run for a few)...

If you go to court and show that you've obtained insurance you might get it dropped or reduced.

On the Speed Racing, you have a decent case in that the riding behavior you described (which may be different from what the officer saw or will describe) would amount to a "technical" violation based on one element of a statute that gives seven different ways to violate the law...and yours in the most vague.

The spirit of the law is to penalize people who are actually racing, but is also designed to penalize people who are doing other things that go along with racing even if the race isn't actually occurring. A simple example is that it would include a hole shot from a light where you showed dramatic acceleration, or burnout, or wheelie...even if you weren't doing it to "race" another vehicle.

Swerving around a line of cars and nailing it to the exit, especially if you kept both wheels down, would be a bit of a chippy ticket unless you truly did get into Reckless or Careless territory.

Not having insurance will likely hurt you if you try to fight the Racing charge, but only you and the officer know how "bad" your riding was during that time.

He can absolutely cite you without knowing speed, and the fact that he probably didn't know your speed is why he couldn't just write you for speed and had to go with something else. I think Careless would have been a more solid choice compared to Racing.

Was it a Trooper?

ehh.. well i cant do a moving burnout nor do i care to do stopped burnouts (no money for new tires..:yes:) and its an SV650 it cant do a wheelie @ highway speeds so nothing to say there.. although it MIGHT be rapid acceleration .. even thou i was still within the speed limit @ the time of him seeing me or passing anyone.. no i didnt swerve around a bunch of cars and pin it to the exit.. if i did he probably wouldnt have got me so easy :p... but most that know me (i hope) know that im not about doing crazy things and obey the law 99% of the time.. thats why i hang out with all you old people (haha :yes:) and not younger stunters and such.. im just not about that..

but i really dont know why i got careless, i DID signal EVERY lane change and when i was getting of the exit (before i got popped) and there was plenty of room between and cars i went between and nowhere indangered others lifes unless someone behind me was speeding (no one was near) nor do i think that my life was dangered..

so as of right now.. im just waiting on my OR lawyer to call me back (guna call tmrw) and figure out whats going to go down..

[Ghostly]

p.s its good to see some new facers around here (DrDuc and Dfinch)

[DrDuc]

:eek2:


You!?

Jail time?!? :wtf:

Yes. I know. It's sad, but true. It was a very humbling experience to have one's girlfriend's dad - who happened to be an ex-State Trooper - come and bail me out of jail. Like I said, I was young when it happened. Back then, I used to ride and drive reeeaaalllyyy fast, much faster than I do now that I'm old and grown up :haha:

[DFinch]

I thought from your original thread that you got No Insurance and Speed Racing? Did you also get Careless, or did I misunderstand?

Careless is harder to fight.

[Jane Honda]

Yes. I know. It's sad, but true. It was a very humbling experience to have one's girlfriend's dad - who happened to be an ex-State Trooper - come and bail me out of jail. Like I said, I was young when it happened. Back then, I used to ride and drive reeeaaalllyyy fast, much faster than I do now that I'm old and grown up :haha:


Dude. I don't see how someone could be much faster... :eek2:

[Ghostly]

I thought from your original thread that you got No Insurance and Speed Racing? Did you also get Careless, or did I misunderstand?

Careless is harder to fight.

yeah unfortunately i also got careless in there

speed racing
careless driving
driving uninsured

[DFinch]

The Driving Uninsured will hurt you with the judge. If you show up with insurance you might get that one dropped, but it will still hurt you.

My guess, after re-reading your original description, is that he did in fact see you when you were in triple digits but he wasn't able to verify a specific speed.

The Racing charge will be a hard one for him. Careless is much easier. Chances are you'll skate on the Racing charge but it's going to be hard to overcome the Careless if he testifies that, although he wasn't able to get a specific speed, he recognized from training and experience and how hard it was to catch up with you that you were going fast enough to justify a Careless charge...and it will probably stick.

That's assuming that what he saw matches what you described.

Of course, I'm guessing.

[Ghostly]

The Driving Uninsured will hurt you with the judge. If you show up with insurance you might get that one dropped, but it will still hurt you.

My guess, after re-reading your original description, is that he did in fact see you when you were in triple digits but he wasn't able to verify a specific speed.

The Racing charge will be a hard one for him. Careless is much easier. Chances are you'll skate on the Racing charge but it's going to be hard to overcome the Careless if he testifies that, although he wasn't able to get a specific speed, he recognized from training and experience and how hard it was to catch up with you that you were going fast enough to justify a Careless charge...and it will probably stick.

That's assuming that what he saw matches what you described.

Of course, I'm guessing.

the only reason why i didnt have insurance is because if you own your moto outright in WA (not paying on it) its not req. to have insurance.. or else i would have got it (plus i didnt really have the doe to get some)

and im even thou you say he did i dont think he saw me do any triples because on the ticket it said 162nd.. by then i was maybe 10-20 MAYBE that much over the speed (55 limit i think?)
so i still dont think he would have seen the triple.. but i dont know.. i guess ill see in court

and according to ORS.. 811.135.. "A person commits the offense of careless driving if the person drives any vehicle upon a highway or other premises described in this section in a manner that endangers or would be likely to endanger any person or property."

i dont think i was endangering ANYONES life not even my own.. there was no one near me during triples and when i got near the cars/semis i was under or @ the speed (not a little above.. @ or under)

and after i got past the semis and was passing the other car i was maybe 5-15 over the speed.. which is still im my opinion reasonable and not "endangering" anybodys life


p.s thats for all the info.. im trying to figure it all out and see whats up and what you all think

[DFinch]

You also might get lucky and he won't show, assuming you're going for a trial.

[Ghostly]

You also might get lucky and he won't show, assuming you're going for a trial.

yes i AM going to trial.. along with my lawyer :D

and i heard that officers only get paid 3 hours overtime for court stuff.. soo since its @ the end of the month (30th) maybe he wont show.. (maybe he will)

does him bein there really make THAT much of a diff?

[Flyte Risk]

the only reason why i didnt have insurance is because if you own your moto outright in WA (not paying on it) its not req. to have insurance.. or else i would have got it (plus i didnt really have the doe to get some)

Thats the best lie I've seen in a long time

You stood outside Mickey Finn's and told us (by "us" I mean several members who were in attendance that night" that you didn't have insurance. When we collectively informed you that if you got caught in OR your bike would be impounded and you would recieve a ticket for no insurance your argument was that "well, I don't have to have it in WA so maybe they'll let me get away with it here." Knowing that you do most of your riding in OR you knowingly chose to disregard the state law.

Even if you truely believe that you didn't need insurance in OR be a man and just tell the judge the truth about that and wait for them to inform you that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

BTW, I can speak for most of the members here when I say that just because we're "old" doesn't mean what you think it does. We're just mature enough to know when and where we can get away with it.

[DFinch]

yes i AM going to trial.. along with my lawyer :D

and i heard that officers only get paid 3 hours overtime for court stuff.. soo since its @ the end of the month (30th) maybe he wont show.. (maybe he will)

does him bein there really make THAT much of a diff?

Court overtime benefits are different from agency to agency. Portland gets 4 hours if it's your day off. If court falls on your regular work hours, you are already on duty so you get no overtime.

If the officer doesn't show in Multnomah County, the judge will dismiss the charges. No-shows are much less common now because everyone is cracking down on it. It is common now for the court to file complaints against officers who don't show. In the "old days" nobody cared.

[Ghostly]

Thats the best lie I've seen in a long time

You stood outside Mickey Finn's and told us (by "us" I mean several members who were in attendance that night" that you didn't have insurance. When we collectively informed you that if you got caught in OR your bike would be impounded and you would recieve a ticket for no insurance your argument was that "well, I don't have to have it in WA so maybe they'll let me get away with it here." Knowing that you do most of your riding in OR you knowingly chose to disregard the state law.

Even if you truely believe that you didn't need insurance in OR be a man and just tell the judge the truth about that and wait for them to inform you that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

BTW, I can speak for most of the members here when I say that just because we're "old" doesn't mean what you think it does. We're just mature enough to know when and where we can get away with it.

i relize what you guys said and knew that it would most likely happen.. but ive heard storys far worst with just a warning.. but like i said i got caught and they didnt.. so im guna deal.. and its not a lie.. insurance IS NOT req. in WA.. and i really didnt have the doe to get insurance , the only reason why i have it now is cuz i had to have it to get my bike out of impound.. and i own my father $$..

[Ghostly]

Court overtime benefits are different from agency to agency. Portland gets 4 hours if it's your day off. If court falls on your regular work hours, you are already on duty so you get no overtime.

If the officer doesn't show in Multnomah County, the judge will dismiss the charges. No-shows are much less common now because everyone is cracking down on it. It is common now for the court to file complaints against officers who don't show. In the "old days" nobody cared.

hmm.. interesting.. well i might get a no show.. prob not but maybe.. the time is this thursday @ 5PM.. so maybe over time maybe not.. i dont know.. we'll see

[ThaSick1]

Thats the best lie I've seen in a long time

You stood outside Mickey Finn's and told us (by "us" I mean several members who were in attendance that night" that you didn't have insurance. When we collectively informed you that if you got caught in OR your bike would be impounded and you would recieve a ticket for no insurance your argument was that "well, I don't have to have it in WA so maybe they'll let me get away with it here." Knowing that you do most of your riding in OR you knowingly chose to disregard the state law.

Even if you truely believe that you didn't need insurance in OR be a man and just tell the judge the truth about that and wait for them to inform you that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

BTW, I can speak for most of the members here when I say that just because we're "old" doesn't mean what you think it does. We're just mature enough to know when and where we can get away with it.


this is def. one for the scrapbooks:thinking:

[DFinch]

hmm.. interesting.. well i might get a no show.. prob not but maybe.. the time is this thursday @ 5PM.. so maybe over time maybe not.. i dont know.. we'll see

How'd it go?

[Xflyer]

+1

How did it go Alex..?

[Xflyer]

...or is the fact that you have not replied mean that you are currently in a cell being 'beotched'

(Ok, that last bit was mean)