My "Oh Sh*t" moment.

[Sassyduck]

I was going down the freeway, 65 mph and I start to hit morning rush hour traffic. I thought I was far enough back from the car in front of me. He slams on his breaks, so I do a quick stop. The back tire starts sliding all over the place. Fortunately I recovered, and I said a quick prayer of thanks.

That told me a few things...
1. I need to practice my quick stops.
2. Maybe I don't need to apply my breaks as hard and as quick.
3. Even though I thought I was following the "four second" rule, an extra second wouldn't hurt.

Kinda scared the stuff outta me!

[NinjaKitty]

Yiikes ! Glad to hear that you are relatively ok..lol. Just the nerves a bit raw perhaps ?

[lobes]

Glad you made it out alright. Remember that the back brake is used lightly if at all.

[MarinesBiatch]

Glad you're ok, SD......

[Jane Honda]

Yup, I need to practise my quick stops too.


I rarely use my back brake, unless it's in conjunction with the front and then I apply progressively.



Damn, this was a difficult post to make. I shouldn't use big words so early in the morning. :unsure:

[RedEyEdrR]

Rear Brake uses:

1. To bring down a wheelie that is getting out of control
2. Trail Braking
3. To keep you from rolling backwards at a stop light while you pick your nose with the front break lever hand. :yes:

Glad you avoided getting hurt. work on heavy braking with the front bike, it just might save you someday. :thumbup:

[MA$TER_E]

Glad you made it out alright. Remember that the back brake is used lightly if at all.

I'd concur. The rear brake is all but useless. It does a great job of making one lose control if used improperly. I hardly ever use mine but when I do you better believe its an Oh Shit! moment. A book I've read Total Control says something like on most sport bikes the rear brake provides only at most 20% stopping power and on bikes like the R1 provide as little as 10%... So if you need that extra oh say 15% I'd classify that as an Oh Shit moment for sure...

Glad to hear you're alright though :thumbup:

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm287/land6266/00000000%20-%20OSB%20Storage/TotalControl.jpg

[Jane Honda]

Rear Brake uses:

1. To bring down a wheelie that is getting out of control
2. Trail Braking
3. To keep you from rolling backwards at a stop light while you pick your nose with the front break lever hand. :yes:

Glad you avoided getting hurt. work on heavy braking with the front bike, it just might save you someday. :thumbup:


Do you use the bike directly in front of you to stop, or the bike in front of the bike in front of you? :haha:

[Xflyer]

Good to hear that you escaped that one intact, things like that are never fun!

In the UK we are taught to use our rear brake split 70/30 - 80/20 to the front at all times, and soley use the rear when stopped and when crawling/traffic/etc. Somewhere under 10mph. (ish)

We are made to practice until we can do emergency stops that are just darn-right scary! We also have to perform several emergency stops on our test, one of which is a faster run (but have to stop in the same distance) and you have to lock up the rear, then regain control, and still stop in time. If you do it right, you stop just at the instructors feet, if not - he moves!

That said, its been over 10 years since I did it, so I too should really get to the parking lot!

[NinjaKitty]

:haha: There is a nice parking lot down the street :yes: you're welcome to come over here and join this rookie in the lot with Torque:naughty:

[RedEyEdrR]

Do you use the bike directly in front of you to stop, or the bike in front of the bike in front of you? :haha:

I have 19,xxx miles on my RR and still have stock pads in the rear. I just don't use them. I ride slicks and as soon as to touch the rear brake you're sliding. Front brakes will stop you more controlled and ALOT SOONER!!!!! Just takes practice. :yes:

P.S. Not too many bikes can ride in front of me. :twofinger:

[MarinesBiatch]

Team Oregon teaches it a little differently, but we had to use both brakes... All the time.... :unsure: But I'm a noob, and staying out of this convo otherwise...

[Flyte Risk]

I can show you the MRI's from the last time I used the rear brake in an emergency stop. The only time I ever use the rear now is when I'm trail braking.

[Jane Honda]

I have 19,xxx miles on my RR and still have stock pads in the rear. I just don't use them. I ride slicks and as soon as to touch the rear brake you're sliding. Front brakes will stop you more controlled and ALOT SOONER!!!!! Just takes practice. :yes:

P.S. Not too many bikes can ride in front of me. :twofinger:


Yeah, I think I may have touched the rears maybe 3 times since I got my bike. I use shifting and compression to slow me down, and for real stopping I use the front.

[Sassyduck]

Team Oregon teaches it a little differently, but we had to use both brakes... All the time.... :unsure: But I'm a noob, and staying out of this convo otherwise...
See, that was what I was taught in the MSF course. Use both breaks, all the time, and downshift, which is what I did. I use both brakes to stop. That is going to be a hard habit to break.

Thanks you guys for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[Flyte Risk]

Rear brake = 4-1/2" compression fracture of the Tibial Plateau & sprained knee. ( straight down the bone like firewood )

Rear brake = BAD!

[RedEyEdrR]

Team Oregon teaches it a little differently, but we had to use both brakes... All the time.... :unsure: But I'm a noob, and staying out of this convo otherwise...

And that is a good thing to do when you start. Front brake control takes practice. :thumbup:

[MA$TER_E]

Using both brakes is a good thing... Sometimes... Maybe I'm wrong but how I see it is if I'm cruising down the road and try to stop with the back brake only and it takes 75% farther down the road to stop compared to the front (keep in mind this is just regular riding doing 55 down a straight stretch of road) When you use the front brake the whole front end of the bike dives and much of the load of the bike is on the front tire now. Surely the back brake no longer has its 25% stopping power anymore I would imagine it would be quite a bit less then that... So unless you absolutely need it wouldn't it be best to use the front brake only and keep the back tire stable under you and in control?

[MarineHawk]

Ok, I've sat out of this conversation for quite awhile, mostly because I disagree so vehemently with everyone saying "never use the back brake, it's a bad thing and bad things will happen" and I didn't want to bother getting into some bullshit argument. To bad.

The rear brake, along with every other piece of equipement up to and including the bike itself, is something that takes practice, practice, and some more practice to get it right, until it becomes muscle memory to use a reverse progression of strength ("lots" to little/none) on your brake in emergency situations. Much like countersteering, it's un-intuitive at first. Nobody thought pushing left to go left made much sense at first. Unlike countersteering, it's not something we just start doing.

Yes, the rear brake provides much less stopping power and yes, it -can- break the rear end free. But if you use it correctly, it can also make the difference between stopping in 100 feet or stopping in 120.

[MA$TER_E]

Ok, I've sat out of this conversation for quite awhile, mostly because I disagree so vehemently with everyone saying "never use the back brake, it's a bad thing and bad things will happen" and I didn't want to bother getting into some bullshit argument. To bad.

The rear brake, along with every other piece of equipement up to and including the bike itself, is something that takes practice, practice, and some more practice to get it right, until it becomes muscle memory to use a reverse progression of strength ("lots" to little/none) on your brake in emergency situations. Much like countersteering, it's un-intuitive at first. Nobody thought pushing left to go left made much sense at first. Unlike countersteering, it's not something we just start doing.

Yes, the rear brake provides much less stopping power and yes, it -can- break the rear end free. But if you use it correctly, it can also make the difference between stopping in 100 feet or stopping in 120.

:plusone:

Practice :ride: Practice :ride: Practice :ride:

[MarinesBiatch]

Nice.

[RedEyEdrR]

:sing:

Just different riding styles I guess. With a good suspension set up and SRJL pads the rear brake is a urban legand to this guy.

:lol: :lol:

[Sassyduck]

See, that was their reasoning for using the rear brake. To take less time to stop. I was in nastry traffic this morning (worse than Tuesday) and really thought about the "four second" rule, too. I realized that people are so last minute about their cars (crossing four lanes of traffic 100 feet to the off ramp), putting their brakes on, etc., that I need to give more time.

I think I might spend some time in a parking lot practicing my sudden stops. I have that book, and I will read it, too.

[MarineHawk]

The problem with most people is that they treat the rear brake on their bike the same as they would in their car, and use little-to-lots progression. The way the braking system is set up on a motorcycle, doing it that way ends badly, as has been noted.

As I said, it needs to happen in a reverse, medium/soft-to-little/none, progression, and that just takes practice to get used to/remember/do.

[Xflyer]

The problem with most people is that they treat the rear brake on their bike the same as they would in their car, and use little-to-lots progression. The way the braking system is set up on a motorcycle, doing it that way ends badly, as has been noted.

As I said, it needs to happen in a reverse, medium/soft-to-little/none, progression, and that just takes practice to get used to/remember/do.


Echoing my thoughts exactly...

That is (pretty much) what we are taught, and have to do in the UK to pass our test, and you have to have it nailed to pass!
Whilst I have really never given it too much thought before; now I stop and acutally think about it, it is another muscle memory that is learnt, and like anything new, needs to be perfected.

Its like MH posted, the difference between 100ft and 120ft...

[MarinesBiatch]

And try to use the "10 second" rule as opposed to the 4.... That's what we're taught up here.

[lobes]

So your saying in moderate traffic taveling say 30MPH you should leave 26.88 car lengths between you and the car in front of you! :lol: And at 60MPH you should leave almost 54 car lengths between you. Ahh Ya let me know how that one works out for you if there is more than just you and the other car out there.

That is just stupid to think that if you leave that much space someone is not going to move into that space. Then of course you would have to slow down to make more space and before you know it you are sitting right where you should be; off the road waiting for your 108 car lengths of space. I say 108 because if you have to leave 54 cars between you and the car in front of you then you really should make sure that the car behind you is 54 car lengths behind you.

PS. Last time I was up in Seattle I don't think I saw anyone leaving that much space.

[lobes]

Basicaly my point is...

Learning how to ride your specific bike is a lot better than just avoiding certain cituations. No matter how much you try to avoid them things are going to come up. I am a firm believer in that you have to push your bike at times in a safer environment so that you know what you and your bike are capable of. Ignorance will not keep you out of the hospital but knowledge just might.

If you learn yourself and your bike there will be fewer "Oh shit moments".

[MarineHawk]

I thought the 10-second rule was for scanning ahead?

[MarinesBiatch]

So your saying in moderate traffic taveling say 30MPH you should leave 26.88 car lengths between you and the car in front of you! :lol: And at 60MPH you should leave almost 54 car lengths between you. Ahh Ya let me know how that one works out for you if there is more than just you and the other car out there.

That is just stupid to think that if you leave that much space someone is not going to move into that space. Then of course you would have to slow down to make more space and before you know it you are sitting right where you should be; off the road waiting for your 108 car lengths of space. I say 108 because if you have to leave 54 cars between you and the car in front of you then you really should make sure that the car behind you is 54 car lengths behind you.

PS. Last time I was up in Seattle I don't think I saw anyone leaving that much space.

No, it's called look ahead 10 seconds. Please ask before you jump on something like that. And thank you for calling me an idiot without saying so. Not everyone is stupid, thank you very much.

[NinjaKitty]

Basicaly my point is...

Learning how to ride your specific bike is a lot better than just avoiding certain cituations. No matter how much you try to avoid them things are going to come up. I am a firm believer in that you have to push your bike at times in a safer environment so that you know what you and your bike are capable of. Ignorance will not keep you out of the hospital but knowledge just might.

If you learn yourself and your bike there will be fewer "Oh shit moments".


True, but seeing its her first "oh shit moment " cut the gurl a break . Being a newbie myself. I will still go to te parking lot. So I have a controlled enviroment to make an ass out of myself. Getting to know the new to me bike. Its intimidating power makes me nervous. From the sound to the vibration is so different. I would have thought I was riding a noisey moped before.

Knowledge is good. But knowledge practiced is wisdom. You all be safe out there ! :yes:

[Sassyduck]

I appreciate the feedback, and glad I could spark a good discussion.

[NinjaKitty]

So your saying in moderate traffic taveling say 30MPH you should leave 26.88 car lengths between you and the car in front of you! :lol: And at 60MPH you should leave almost 54 car lengths between you. Ahh Ya let me know how that one works out for you if there is more than just you and the other car out there.

That is just stupid to think that if you leave that much space someone is not going to move into that space. Then of course you would have to slow down to make more space and before you know it you are sitting right where you should be; off the road waiting for your 108 car lengths of space. I say 108 because if you have to leave 54 cars between you and the car in front of you then you really should make sure that the car behind you is 54 car lengths behind you.

PS. Last time I was up in Seattle I don't think I saw anyone leaving that much space.


I don't think that is what she meant. You always should be aware of whats in your immediate path. In addition to it. You need to also do the 10sec scan ahead. Seeing that I think amongst us. I was the last one to go through the course. I remember it very well as we should be doing both.

Its not like you are leaving room for 54 cars (smartass :squid: )Its scaning ahead, looking for that action and path to ride safely in any situation. Sometimes the people in front talking on their cellphone with their 1.9 kids and their friends screamin and dog barking ; don't always pay attention. ( those I 'd love to kick in the pants:yell: get off the damn phone asswipe !)

Anyway, yesterday while merging onto the freeway. Some suv decided that even after enough room, proper signaling. That they were going to speed up anyway making me almost run out of run and lets just say having to use my 4 paw stop !. Well, quick and correct response with enough time to manuever saved this kitties bacon. But of course it was a SUV..

sorry but, I have found more often than not those to be some of the worst offenders in drivers etiqette:yell: So they are riding high in their thing .Who the hell cares. You share the road with everyone not just with those you can see at your eye level..:yell: ok..now I feel better...Opps.... Sorry for the thread jack...

I just get really upset with those on the road who think they are something. Like those who are new and think they know it all because they have a newer bike and took the classes..Big f' whoopeety doo doo.I'm happy on my older work in progress riding to enjoy another day. :rad:

So 10 sec scan doesn't mean room for 54 cars LOBEDS.:lol: :yes: :lol: :yes:

[Sassyduck]

Yes, NK. SUV's are the worst offenders. That is why I am hypervigilant around them.

Ride like you are invisible. I assume no one sees me when I am riding.

[Xflyer]

Ride like you are invisible. I assume no one sees me when I am riding.

That is absolutely one of the smartest ways to ride :thumbup: