Challenging Oregon Laws....

[tdekeyser1]

I have a full-blown trial on June 19th in Marion county. I will be defending myself because my attorneys tell me there is no beating traffic tickets in Oregon. The lesgilator has written into law circumventions around the US Constitution. Losing this trial will give me standing in the supreme court of Oregon and the US supreme court. I will be challenging the fact that moving violations have been pushed down to "infractions", and the right to a jury trial has been removed from the OR citizens. They have also raised the burden of proof to "perponderance of evidence" when it should be "beyond a reasonable doubt". No...I'm not a lawyer, but I strongly believe in my rights as a citizen of my country. Oregon is skirting on violating ALL of our constitutional rights and I am going to do what I can to stop it.

I have been to many trials and have beaten just about every ticket I have received. In this country, we have a right to a jury trial. Oregon has set it up so that the judge acts as a jury of your peers. Do you think anyone will have a chance at a fair trial with this type of Ponzy scheme?

More than likely, the judge will dismiss my speeding case before I finish my opening statements. The impact I could bring to the OR courts would be costly to the counties....and judges know this. Wish me luck!

[nelson]

Regardless of the bike you ride...I do wish you luck. You sound like you definately have your sh!t together. If it comes to trial I sure would like to be there to watch the process. I should be more actively involved in the laws that govern this state. I, as a quad rider, have been subjected to a bunch of new laws that took effect this year. Laws that I never knew were trying to be passed. They certainly were not on any ballot. Just some liberal group that decided to cause ripples in a perfectly flowing source of conservitive entertainment, and succeeded because we all didn't pay enough attention.

good luck to you and your fight for our rights.

[THOE]

I once witness a person doing a stunt down on NW 23 and he crashed in front of Star Bucks and his bike almost went into the Rams Head. One FBI agent saw the whole thing as his friends hide his bike and then the PPD showed up in force. They cited him and he ended up in court. I was friends with one of the police officers who cited the rider. He tried to get me to hand over any video of him doing stunts or breaking the law. I had none to give nor would I have given it up since no one was hurt. So the rider ended up in court and won do to the fact that he had seven witnesses and all of them had different stories so the judge was confused and threw it out.

I recently got a citation for my license plate and tires. I was doing nothing except riding and doing the speed limit. This motorcycle cop decided he would pull me over and harass me because he felt he could not see my plate clear enough. Then he noticed I had race tires on so he wrote me up for both and would not let me ride my bike because he felt it was unsafe to ride. So not only did I get a ticket for $248 he wanted me to pay another $150 to have it towed. If you read the law about the license plate all it says is it has to be visible and says nothing about where it has to be mounted nor does it need to have a light shinning on it. As far as the tires go it does state you cannot operated race tires on the street but for the most part it just states that the tire has to be in good working condition with tread and damage free.

There is flexibility in these rules you just have to find them and have your plan of attack when you go into court and stick to the point as I plan to call foul on both of these and the A-hole police officer who had nothing better to do then pull me over. I also plan to state that the officer pre-judged me before pulling me over.

Get this I used hand signals instead of my blinkers and he told me it was illegal and then made me show him that my electronic blinkers worked. I then challenged him on it and he back down. I cannot wait and when I get my date I am going to reschedule it to stretch it out as long as possible.

[Xflyer]

Good luck Tdekeyser1, I am very interested to know how this one turns out. I too am a strong believer in our rights as Americans, as wish you all the best.

[MarinesBiatch]

Advice from a recent pre-law graduate, Thoe... Don't stretch it out. It will end up hurting you, NOT helping.

I can't believe he tried to give you $h!t for using hand signals.... Frickin' moron... He really didn't have anything better to do, did he??

And I wouldn't necessarily call it flexibility in the rules.... More like they were written poorly which causes loopholes. :yes:

Tdekeyser1.... I'm still pretty speechless about the whole thing.... But good luck with the trial, and make sure to post what the outcome is! I like the "beyond reasonable doubt" part better than preponderance of the evidence, considering preponderance of the evidence is the lowest level. However, I would prefer at least "clear and convincing evidence." :) So in your case, they lowered it, not raised it. I don't know much about Oregon laws (I'm a WA resident), so hopefully you do well. But make sure you know the differences between the levels of evidence. Here's a quick breakdown:

1) Preponderance of the evidence (Lowest level, thought to be about 50% positive, but does not have a numeric approximation; could be lower than 50%)

2) Clear and convincing evidence (Medium level)

3) Beyond a reasonable doubt (Highest level; no numeric approximation)

It always seemed odd to me that Clear and convincing evidence was a medium level....... But I didn't create the rules.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[tdekeyser1]

All,

As you get to know me, you will see that "ZX14 Tim" is a walking encyclopedia. I am highly educated and have been researching laws, science, global history etc...for many years. I feel very strongly about my rights as a US citizen (because I read the history of our constitution). Please listen up:popcorn:

You ALL are US Citizens! You have rights and protections beyond your wildest dreams. You live in a great country and the history of "absolute power" is that is corrupts absolutely! It can happen here and especially in smaller cities and counties. The US Constitution is designed to combat this abuse of power! It has not failed us for 230 years!

Oregon has done some unconstitutional things. Just believe me. The 5th amendment (US Constitution) says you have a right to a jury trial in all cases (this is because without it, political enemies could be prosecuted and there goes democracy!). except petty things like traffic infractons.

Oregon has done away with this right for you! They have cleverly tried to re-package moving violations as infractions. "Infractions" do not get a jury trial, because they are tiny things like a tail light out or a bolt missing from a plate! They ALSO raised the burden of proof so that an officer’s word is like worth 3 citizens word. You can't win traffic tickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have to have a video of the entire event to even have a chance.

If you were actually innocent (officers make mistakes ya know...), you can't defend yourself. My attorneys advised against trying to present facts in a trial. You will lose they saY! They instead try different legal techniques as delays and motions to get it dismissed.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOIN ON IN THIS STATE!!!??? The citizens are just paying tickets and not caring about your rights are being removed!!?? This is the beginnings of a police state my friends! I have coworkers who believe that I will get beat up by the bailiff if I go and offend the judge. What country has citizens afraid of the VERY institution THEY put in place to protect them?? This is not America ladies and gentleman!

I am writing my opening statement now. I may post it on here before I go to my trial. If I lose this speeding case, then that will give me standing to go to the Oregon Supreme court to challenge the traffic legislation as unconstitutional. We don't have the ability to FAIRLY defend ourselves on a moving violation in this state because they have removed the right of the 5th amendment of the US Constitution to have a jury trial.

June 19th! Wish me luck fellow citizens!

[MarinesBiatch]

None of us are saying that you are wrong. We all wish you luck. However, please don't act like you are the only know-all here. Some of us are also highly educated.

[MarinesBiatch]

And, btw, your statement about having to have a video to win is a flat out lie. I know a friend of mine who had his ticket dropped for speeding just by measuring a distance from where the cop clocked him and a speed limit sign. AND it was in OREGON!!!! Please get your facts straight!!

[nelson]

None of us are saying that you are wrong. We all wish you luck. However, please don't act like you are the only know-all here. Some of us are also highly educated.

Uhm...I would not be one of those people she speaks of...

I wonder how big this ticket is??? I just got a $200 ticket for speeding....i was clearly guilty, so I paid it:idunno:

[MarinesBiatch]

Sorry. Let me rephrase that then. SOME of us wish you luck.

I guess you're right though, Nelson. I don't really know the story of why he's going to court.

[tdekeyser1]

None of us are saying that you are wrong. We all wish you luck. However, please don't act like you are the only know-all here. Some of us are also highly educated.

No...I didn't think that at all. I'm not comparing myself to anyone. I know others are just as capable and educated. I didn't even think anyone was against me... I'm just saying, that I am a type of person who will challenge the courts.

On the video evidence....that is what a lawyer told me. I have no idea... I will find out though through challanging the system.

I meant no disrespect and none was shown. I believe everyone is on my side...so I'm happy with you all.

Please no one get offended to anythng I say on the boards. I like to use this to vent passions...but never believe I am better than anyone here or smarter etc...

We are all equal. That is what I'm fighting for. :) :)

[MarinesBiatch]

Ok, I just wanted to make sure. I did feel some disrespect at first, so I'm glad you weren't trying at that.

That lawyer is an idiot. Get a better lawyer!! :haha:

Btw, what is the actual story behind your going to court??? I only have read that you are going to court and are challenging Oregon laws.....

[tdekeyser1]

PS> I may appear to be an arrogant ass at times....and I might be...LOL. I like people like Flight Risk for these qualities!

Naaaa...I'm a really nice person. Everyone will see in time..... :wave

[tdekeyser1]

Ok, I just wanted to make sure. I did feel some disrespect at first, so I'm glad you weren't trying at that.

That lawyer is an idiot. Get a better lawyer!! :haha:

Btw, what is the actual story behind your going to court??? I only have read that you are going to court and are challenging Oregon laws.....

I'm going to court on an 85 in a 65. The officer made a mistake. It was the car next to me who was passing me in the fast lane. He slammed on his brakes when he noticed the officer (up the road) and I was right next to the speeder. It was an honest mistake on the officer trying to Lidar 2 football fields away. You can't determine which was the moving object when they are right next to each other and one is a motorcycle within arms reach of a larger object.

Even though I'm innocent, I can't win in Oregon courts? That is what I'm fighting. It's not fair.....

[MarinesBiatch]

PS> I may appear to be an arrogant ass at times....and I might be...LOL. I like people like Flight Risk for these qualities!

Naaaa...I'm a really nice person. Everyone will see in time..... :wave

Yeah, I heard I missed you Friday night. :wave

[MarinesBiatch]

I'm going to court on an 85 in a 65. The officer made a mistake. It was the car next to me who was passing me in the fast lane. He slammed on his brakes when he noticed the officer (up the road) and I was right next to the speeder. It was an honest mistake on the officer trying to Lidar 2 football fields away. You can't determine which was the moving object when they are right next to each other and one is a motorcycle within arms reach of a larger object.

Even though I'm innocent, I can't win in Oregon courts? That is what I'm fighting. It's not fair.....

Ooh, that sucks.... And of course they pulled you, the motorcyclist, over because you were the more "liable" target.... BS. Yeah, I hope you can get out of that one. I hate police officers that stereotype, especially when it comes to motorcyclists.

[tdekeyser1]

Yeah, I heard I missed you Friday night. :wave

Too bad you won't be there this Friday... I plan on RAZZING Flight Risk...ha ha aha ha! LOL!

[tdekeyser1]

I know a friend of mine who had his ticket dropped for speeding just by measuring a distance from where the cop clocked him and a speed limit sign. AND it was in OREGON...

MB,

Tell me more about this case please... What city/county was this in? You say he got it "dropped". That tells me that the judge (or the officer can do this too) did not want a trial and "dropped" the case. Cases get dropped all the time (in the interest of money, court schedule, officer availablity, lack of evidence etc..).

My case may get dropped when I walk in the door. The judge may even drop the case when she hears that I am going to challenge the legislation in the higher courts. If not..... I have an entire trial I have to go through where I present evidence and cross-examine the officer. This is where I have a huge disadvantage in Oregon. Even the lawyers know this. I hired 3 law firms for a $250 ticket (Im innocent remember...). I've already spent $1K on this case, so it is not about money or getting out of paying a ticket.

I do believe you can win cases here though. If the judge is really impartial, and the county gets tax revenue, then a citizen should have a fair trial.

My attorneys are telling me that Marion County (Salem/Woodburn) is a rubber stamp for the police. They do not take tax revenue and get all of their funding from traffic tickets. The judges, police and traffic courts have a monetary motivation to write tickets and stifle efforts of citizens fighting them because that costs them money.

All I'm asking for is "rider support" from this board. I was hoping I would inspire others to defend temselves if they are wrongly charged...

PS> I actually respect LEO's and the job they are doing!:smilewink:

John Adams, on the Stamp Act (1765)

But the most grievous innovation of all, is the alarming extension of the power of the courts of admiralty. In these courts, one judge presides alone! No juries have any concern there! The law and the fact are both to be decided by the same single judge.

Justice Byron White, in Duncan v. Louisiana (1967)

The question has been asked whether [trial by jury] is among those fundamental principles of liberty and justice which lie at the base of all our civil and political institutions. . . . We believe that trial by jury is fundamental to the American scheme of justice. . . . The jury trial provisions in the Federal and State Constitutions reflect a fundamental decision about the exercise of official power — a reluctance to entrust plenary powers over the life and liberty of the citizen to one judge or to a group of judges.

[Flyte Risk]

Where is MEPster when you need him?

[tdekeyser1]

Where is MEPster when you need him?

I PM'd him about 3-4 days ago.... I was hoping he had some input... :)

[Flyte Risk]

PS> I may appear to be an arrogant ass at times....and I might be...LOL. I like people like Flight Risk for these qualities!

Naaaa...I'm a really nice person. Everyone will see in time..... :wave

I find most often that it's the ignorant that call others arrogant simply due to their lack of knowledge. When they meet someone who really is knowledgeable and sure of themselves they throw out the arrogance card in an effort to make themselves feel better.

I digress as that is a whole 'nuther topic in a different section.

[NinjaKitty]

All,

As you get to know me, you will see that "ZX14 Tim" is a walking encyclopedia. I am highly educated and have been researching laws, science, global history etc...for many years. I feel very strongly about my rights as a US citizen (because I read the history of our constitution). Please listen up:popcorn:

You ALL are US Citizens! You have rights and protections beyond your wildest dreams. You live in a great country and the history of "absolute power" is that is corrupts absolutely! It can happen here and especially in smaller cities and counties. The US Constitution is designed to combat this abuse of power! It has not failed us for 230 years!

Oregon has done some unconstitutional things. Just believe me. The 5th amendment (US Constitution) says you have a right to a jury trial in all cases (this is because without it, political enemies could be prosecuted and there goes democracy!). except petty things like traffic infractons.

Oregon has done away with this right for you! They have cleverly tried to re-package moving violations as infractions. "Infractions" do not get a jury trial, because they are tiny things like a tail light out or a bolt missing from a plate! They ALSO raised the burden of proof so that an officer’s word is like worth 3 citizens word. You can't win traffic tickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have to have a video of the entire event to even have a chance.

If you were actually innocent (officers make mistakes ya know...), you can't defend yourself. My attorneys advised against trying to present facts in a trial. You will lose they saY! They instead try different legal techniques as delays and motions to get it dismissed.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOIN ON IN THIS STATE!!!??? The citizens are just paying tickets and not caring about your rights are being removed!!?? This is the beginnings of a police state my friends! I have coworkers who believe that I will get beat up by the bailiff if I go and offend the judge. What country has citizens afraid of the VERY institution THEY put in place to protect them?? This is not America ladies and gentleman!

I am writing my opening statement now. I may post it on here before I go to my trial. If I lose this speeding case, then that will give me standing to go to the Oregon Supreme court to challenge the traffic legislation as unconstitutional. We don't have the ability to FAIRLY defend ourselves on a moving violation in this state because they have removed the right of the 5th amendment of the US Constitution to have a jury trial.

June 19th! Wish me luck fellow citizens!


:eek2: It sounds like Japanese law followed me here.I jest not. I lived there for 22 yrs. You are guilty till proven innocent. The police is 99% accurate. Those they can't prove. They write off as they just couldn't find the piece the defendant is hiding. Before you go to trial. ( in most cases) you are held in detention. That can last as long as 6 months.


Good luck Tim.:clapping:

[tdekeyser1]

:eek2: It sounds like Japanese law followed me here.I jest not. I lived there for 22 yrs. You are guilty till proven innocent. The police is 99% accurate. Those they can't prove. They write off as they just couldn't find the piece the defendant is hiding. Before you go to trial. ( in most cases) you are held in detention. That can last as long as 6 months.


Good luck Tim.:clapping:

LOL! I love it! If I don't show up this Friday, then I'm in JAIL! ha ha ha ha!!! Bring it on! ha ha ha!

I'm about done with this soapbox (thanks for listening). When you all see me on Friday night, I will give you a full report.... rock on!:rad:

[NinjaKitty]

LOL! I love it! If I don't show up this Friday, then I'm in JAIL! ha ha ha ha!!! Bring it on! ha ha ha!

I'm about done with this soapbox (thanks for listening). When you all see me on Friday night, I will give you a full report.... rock on!:rad:

:haha: You too. As long as its not on the rock quary :rad: :wave

[MarinesBiatch]

LOL! I love it! If I don't show up this Friday, then I'm in JAIL! ha ha ha ha!!! Bring it on! ha ha ha!

I'm about done with this soapbox (thanks for listening). When you all see me on Friday night, I will give you a full report.... rock on!:rad:

P.S. The 19th is Thursday.....

[MarinesBiatch]

Let me get in touch with him and ask him about his ticket and all the stuff involved. I know he had the lawyer do the measuring and represent him, but that's really about all I know (other than the officer said he was doing 45 in a 35, but he hadn't even hit the sign for the 35 when the officer pulled him over). I'll get back to you on that.

[MarinesBiatch]

I find most often that it's the ignorant that call others arrogant simply due to their lack of knowledge. When they meet someone who really is knowledgeable and sure of themselves they throw out the arrogance card in an effort to make themselves feel better.

I digress as that is a whole 'nuther topic in a different section.

In response to your comment, I never called Tim arrogant. I was just a little offended by my giving him some insight as a new graduate in the area he is discussing, and then him saying he was a walking encyclopedia and totally ignoring and walking all over the information provided. We got it cleared up. It's done. But I never called him arrogant, and I still don't believe he is/was.

[tdekeyser1]

I see... Actually MB, you are a GREAT source of information. I reaaallllly like the fact you went to school for some of this stuff, so I totally respect that! I might PM you...for some questions.

It's easy to get a wrong impression on reading "forum" posts. Sometimes, they are writing something at the same time or not reading your post 100% and responding. It's easy to get a wrong impression. The true impression will come from us all attending FNG's! Yeeeaaahhh! So let's party, because you guys already get my 100% trust and respect for riding SPORTBIKES! We are family....:thumbup:

[Flyte Risk]

Erica, that was a general statement not towards anyone. If it was directed I would have named someone.

Calm down, it's just the internet.

[MarinesBiatch]

I see... Actually MB, you are a GREAT source of information. I reaaallllly like the fact you went to school for some of this stuff, so I totally respect that! I might PM you...for some questions.

It's easy to get a wrong impression on reading "forum" posts. Sometimes, they are writing something at the same time or not reading your post 100% and responding. It's easy to get a wrong impression. The true impression will come from us all attending FNG's! Yeeeaaahhh! So let's party, because you guys already get my 100% trust and respect for riding SPORTBIKES! We are family....:thumbup:

Erica, that was a general statement not towards anyone. If it was directed I would have named someone.

Calm down, it's just the internet.

No stress; I just wanted to make sure I didn't come across like that, so I just wanted to clarify! :yes: But Flyte, you are so cute when you are yelling! :smilewink:

Haha, and it is absolutely true... Wrong impressions are gained easily when you haven't met the person. Hence why my snap response right away earlier on today, and why I wanted to clarify that I don't think you are arrogant. :yes:

Feel free to PM me whenever. I'll go through my books if I have to. I hope to meet you possibly the Friday after this coming Friday!! We'll see what happens, but that's what I am hoping for! :yes:

[THOE]

RCW 46.16.240

Attachment of plates to vehicles — Violations enumerated.


</B>The vehicle license number plates shall be attached conspicuously at the front and rear of each vehicle for which the same are issued and in such a manner that they can be plainly seen and read at all times. However, if only one license number plate is legally issued for any vehicle such plate shall be conspicuously attached to the rear of such vehicle. Each vehicle license number plate shall be placed or hung in a horizontal position at a distance of not more than four feet from the ground and shall be kept clean so as to be plainly seen and read at all times. In cases where the body construction of the vehicle is such that compliance with this section is impossible, permission to deviate therefrom may be granted by the state patrol. It shall be unlawful to display upon the front or rear of any vehicle, vehicle license number plate or plates other than those furnished by the director for such vehicle or to display upon any vehicle any vehicle license number plate or plates which have been in any manner changed, altered, disfigured or have become illegible. License plate frames may be used on vehicle license number plates only if the frames do not obscure license tabs or identifying letters or numbers on the plates and the plates can be plainly seen and read at all times. It is unlawful to use any holders, frames, or any materials that in any manner change, alter, or make the vehicle license number plates illegible. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate any vehicle unless there shall be displayed thereon valid vehicle license number plates attached as herein provided.


RCW 46.37.425

Tires — Unsafe — State patrol's authority — Penalty.


</B>No person shall drive or move or cause to be driven or moved any vehicle, the tires of which have contact with the driving surface of the road, subject to registration in this state, upon the public highways of this state unless such vehicle is equipped with tires in safe operating condition in accordance with requirements established by this section or by the state patrol.

The state patrol shall promulgate rules and regulations setting forth requirements of safe operating condition of tires capable of being employed by a law enforcement officer by visual inspection of tires mounted on vehicles including visual comparison with simple measuring gauges. These rules shall include effects of tread wear and depth of tread.

A tire shall be considered unsafe if it has:

(1) Any ply or cord exposed either to the naked eye or when cuts or abrasions on the tire are probed; or

(2) Any bump, bulge, or knot, affecting the tire structure; or

(3) Any break repaired with a boot; or

(4) A tread depth of less than 2/32 of an inch measured in any two major tread grooves at three locations equally spaced around the circumference of the tire, or for those tires with tread wear indicators, a tire shall be considered unsafe if it is worn to the point that the tread wear indicators contact the road in any two major tread grooves at three locations equally spaced around the circumference of the tire; or

(5) A legend which indicates the tire is not intended for use on public highways such as, "not for highway use" or "for racing purposes only"; or

(6) Such condition as may be reasonably demonstrated to render it unsafe; or

(7) If not matched in tire size designation, construction, and profile to the other tire and/or tires on the same axle, except for temporary-use spare tires that meet federal standards that are installed and used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

No person, firm, or corporation shall sell any vehicle for use on the public highways of this state unless the vehicle is equipped with tires that are in compliance with the provisions of this section. If the tires are found to be in violation of the provisions of this section, the person, firm, or corporation selling the vehicle shall cause such tires to be removed from the vehicle and shall equip the vehicle with tires that are in compliance with the provisions of this section.

It is a traffic infraction for any person to operate a vehicle on the public highways of this state, or to sell a vehicle for use on the public highways of this state, which is equipped with a tire or tires in violation of the provisions of this section or the rules and regulations promulgated by the state patrol hereunder: PROVIDED, HOWEVER, That if the violation relates to items (1) to (7) inclusive of this section then the condition or defect must be such that it can be detected by a visual inspection of tires mounted on vehicles, including visual comparison with simple measuring gauges.

The two things above is what I got cited for and plan to fight them both based on how each one can be interpreted. It all comes down to opinion I think and the license plate one just says it has to be visible and clean it does not tell you have to have it mounted in a specific place and you can even get permission from the state to mounted any where you want. As far as the tires go it does mention race tires at the bottom, but its main concern at the top is that the tire has to be free of damage and have a certain amount of tread.

[BadRepp66]

Good luck guys with your battles. I believe in the Constitution myself and I hope that my service in the military somehow really does defend all of us with our rights in the U.S.

[Flyte Risk]

So how did this go?

[tdekeyser1]

So how did this go?

Man,

I stayed up late the night before getting everything ready, then drove all the way down to Woodburn thenext day. The court cleark told mesince I fred my attorney andwas going to defend myself, they had to reschedule the tial till fter August. I can relax till then....so nothing exciting news yet!

See you all tonight!